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Hi & thank you for taking questions.
If Kabbalists don’t discuss their attainments, how do we know this is not all a product of human imagination? Forgive the crude comparison – but look at scientology for example. That is a system that has people ascend through levels to attain otherwise-secret knowledge at each one that they can’t discuss with anyone. Yet ex-scientologists have come out and said it’s all nonsense.
Cults around the world use the same tactic & it works because people who are seeking meaning in their life are vulnerable. Any system that has people ascend through levels to gain otherwise-secret knowledge which they can’t talk about (and is therefore non-verifiable) is a common pattern throughout human history. How do you know Kabbalah is any different?
If Kabbalah was truly a science and not a belief pattern, then why can’t anything about the upper levels be discussed? (The answer that discussing attainment will induce envy in others and cause you to lose the attainment is consistent with a belief system and not a science).
This is not meant to be inflammatory -please don’t take it as such. Thanks for taking questions.
Megan,
There is a language that a student needs to acquire in order to work in the wisdom of kabbalah. Take an infant and put her with Einstein and ask Einstein to give her all he knows. In the wisdom of kabbalah, “forbidden” means ‘impossible’. Everything is according to the vessels. The Light as we are learning, does not change, all that changes is the vessels that we are building.
So what we are doing here is giving you the building blocks and some knowledge to start building your new vessels and you will perceive this on your own, then it is yours.
Here is my advise for you, you are in week 2 of a 5 week class. So the investment is not so big. During these 5 weeks take good notes in your notebook as if you were going to explain what you are learning to the next generation of students. What you want to have in your notebook is the summary of the main point. And you know that famous quote that is attributed to Einstein, something like, if you can’t explain it simply, you don’t really understand it (something like that). What you want at the end of each week is to hold something in your hand, something that you try on.
I have dozens of notebooks from almost two decades of study like this. I can talk to you about the will to receive that I feel in me, that I see operating all of the creatures around me. I can discuss perception of reality, how each creature depicts her reality based on her senses, of course the world of a dog, who lives through his nose on the ground is different from a hawk who lives from his eyes in the air, the reality stays the same, but it is perceived completely differently by each creature according to its vessels. And you will learn about the 4 phases of direct light that cascade down from above to below, the blueprint of creation and you will see with your own eyes how our reality develops from below to above according to the same four phases: inanimate degree, vegetative degree, animal degree and human degree…
Etc, etc.
Later after you have acquired the fundamentals and you start working in a group of kabbalists who share the same foundation, then you will start working with envy, lust and honor as you alluded to.
Step by step and test it along the way.
Good luck!!!
Seth@KabU
What would you say of someone who really has no desires. (Not me I’m firmly in 5)
I look through the list of evolving desires to see why they might not be seeking as I am and they seek none of that. Survival needs are not an issue but they have no desire for the others either.
I would say they are clearly beyond the desire for wealth or power and knows these are not the way to find contentment. Yet they are just content and have been the 20 years I’ve known them closely. Not driven for knowledge or spirituality.
They are not spiritual but seem to understand and get anything I have explored and shared without belittling it.
I’m not trying to coax just share, but curious are some people just taking a life out from seeking?
Or just content enough to not move into desires.
Also I’m not saying they should change at all I’m just curious, just as he is about why I am so driven towards it.
Alicia,
I’m trying to figure out why the Creator made mosquitos right now and you’re trying to figure out why the Creator made family and friends who don’t yearn to know the purpose of life 🙂
Much later in our study we will begin to discover how all of the reality that we perceive; inanimate, vegatative, animate and speaking are all projections of my inner world outside of me, like Baal HaSulam writes that if they were not projected outside of me I would have no way to discover myself.
In the meantime, since we don’t feel that my Dad and my Grandma and my work colleague and this mosquito are all parts of my desire, my soul, so we are called that we are in the preparation phase in relation to the ladder of degrees.
Our work specifically now is to stabalize ourselves in this field of forces.
Meaning, who am I? (a will to receive with a point in the heart)
Where am I? (in a field of upper light/bestowal)
Why is life the way it is, filled with such agony? (we are uncorrected, we are receving the upper light in order to receive. We need to invert our intention to be in order to bestow, that is, to receive in order to bestow).So all of this and more to understand and start to feel who we are where we are, etc.
And then we will start working in the spiritual environment with other friends who are learning with us, who are studying and upon whom this same upper light is working in an active way.In short, carry on with your studies and don’t try to convince anyone else of anything.
First let the materials that we are studying work on you, harmonize you with the words of the kabbalists and after start to think how will I be able to communicate this in the most simple, clear way possible that one day “everyone will know Me from the greatest to the smallest” and “My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations”, meaning, how will we be able to make ourselves into pipeline to bring the Creator’s light to everyone else in a way that is suitable for THEM. We will be those transitions.All this comes later. For now, you have your work cut out for you.
Good luck!!
Seth@KabUThanks Seth,
The mosquito question is probably a more profound one to be sure. Now I’m going to be wondering too.
i guess I was more curious if that was a known about stage, where desire goes silent for a time. Mosquitos
Not to worry I wouldn’t try to coerce it’s more just daily conversation where we share anything interesting from the day. He’s happy so whatever works.
I like your advice regarding the focus re: our work. Thanks
Alicia,
We are in a very big integral system and sometimes you will even see a person who is a very serious student for 15 years and then the Creator plays with him and he starts getting confused and looking to religion, to some physical practice, that by keeping some physical actions, that will lead to spirituality or sometimes the Creator throws a person back to the corporeal world where he just wants a good life in this world and leaves the spiritual path altogether.
These are situations where a person was on the path. You are asking about a person who is not on the path and frankly doesn’t even care about it, he is having a good life and what more does he need.
And all of this exists in the system. There are active parts and passive parts, like in your body, there is the head that decides and the body executes. The hands, even the toes take part in wherever the body goes, but the head is deciding for the whole body. Likewise humanity is built. Most of humanity is called AH”P and those who attain the spiritual system and the light passes through them to the world are called the G”E. We will study all of this later.
Seth@KabU
Alicia,
I’m trying to figure out why the Creator made mosquitos right now and you’re trying to figure out why the Creator made family and friends who don’t yearn to know the purpose of life 🙂
Much later in our study we will begin to discover how all of the reality that we perceive; inanimate, vegatative, animate and speaking are all projections of my inner world outside of me, like Baal HaSulam writes that if they were not projected outside of me I would have no way to discover myself.
In the meantime, since we don’t feel that my Dad and my Grandma and my work colleague and this mosquito are all parts of my desire, my soul, so we are called that we are in the preparation phase in relation to the ladder of degrees.
Our work specifically now is to stabalize ourselves in this field of forces.
Meaning, who am I? (a will to receive with a point in the heart)
Where am I? (in a field of upper light/bestowal)
Why is life the way it is, filled with such agony? (we are uncorrected, we are receving the upper light in order to receive. We need to invert our intention to be in order to bestow, that is, to receive in order to bestow).So all of this and more to understand and start to feel who we are where we are, etc.
And then we will start working in the spiritual environment with other friends who are learning with us, who are studying and upon whom this same upper light is working in an active way.In short, carry on with your studies and don’t try to convince anyone else of anything.
First let the materials that we are studying work on you, harmonize you with the words of the kabbalists and after start to think how will I be able to communicate this in the most simple, clear way possible that one day “everyone will know Me from the greatest to the smallest” and “My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations”, meaning, how will we be able to make ourselves into pipeline to bring the Creator’s light to everyone else in a way that is suitable for THEM. We will be those transitions.All this comes later. For now, you have your work cut out for you.
Good luck!!
Seth@KabU
Because the sense is completely different i wanna tell me your first feelings when u connect the upper world .they r different person to person?how long did it take for u to achieve it?
Ali,
Imagine that you go to a planet where no one has a tongue and no one can taste and they ask you to explain how a mango tastes and how ice cream tastes and what it is like to eat your favorite dinner. They don’t have taste, so how can you explain.
The kabbalists give us the work to do to acquire the vessels to taste the spiritual world, but they don’t talk to us about their sensations there because those who taste taste and those who don’t taste yet, do not taste.
All of humanity will reach this according to the root of each ones’ soul.
Some will come in 20or 30 years, some in 10 years, some maybe faster, it also depends on the general correction that all of humanity is going through.
Seth@KabU
Dear Friends and Brethren of Bnei Baruch,
I would really like to know why Bnei Baruch (whom I deeply love and cherish and appreciate, by the way) – if we are so keen on unity, fraternity, and the harmony of nations (guided, of course, by the oversight of Torah and Mitzvot and integral, universal Judeanity) – why are we taught to be so dismissive of other religions and wisdom paths, most of which are so obviously in harmony with the teachings of Baal HaSulam?
It seems to me that, rather than resisting beliefs and practices that could complement and enhance our Kabbalistic science, we would want to find fellowship and common cause with folks cultivating powerful, luminous, and complementary ecologies of practice like Zen, Tai Chi (Taoism), Qi Gong, Meditation, Yoga, Sufism, and the kind of Christianity that is amenable to this wisdom? There are so many elective affinities between these and other psycho-technologies and the Wisdom of Kabbalah. Why would you choose hostility against them, over friendship and alliance?
To make a better, more altruistic world, wouldn’t we want to join forces and exchange information about other practices that have proven to be equally as altruistic and harmonizing as Kabbalah to billions of people on the planet?
Surely you have not succumbed to the cult-like delusion of exclusivism? Please tell me that I have not joined a cult that rejects Truth, wherever it might be found?
I have dedicated my entire life to studying humanity’s great and beautiful religions. I have a great love and respect for wisdom wherever it is found, especially in the great philosophical, religious, and mystical teachings of our common humanity. So, it upsets me (and probably upsets Adam HaRishon even more) when Tony, or Gil, or Seth, or Asaph, or Lio, or whoever unnecessarily dissociates the Wisdom of Kabbalah from the patently effective and true wisdom of other paths; or when you foolishly say nonsense like “Kabbalah is not mysticism” (I am a scholar of mysticism, and I can guarantee you that it is); or “Kabbalah is not religion” (according to my definition of religion, which is ‘any system of rules for the transforming of human desire and suffering toward a transcendent or spiritual end’ Kabbalah is EXACTLY a religion); or (the worst one of all) “Kabbalah is not philosophy” (of course it is! Philosophy is literally ‘the love of wisdom’ … What? You don’t love wisdom???).
So, unless you are intentionally trying to isolate yourself from others and become another insular sect, why would you reject the potential to create – alongside other great and complementary religious, philosophical, and mystical traditions – the very harmony and mutual love that we preach in the Wisdom of Kabbalah?
This recalcitrance is deeply troubling. If we, in Bnei Baruch, are going to get anywhere with this movement, we’re going to have to change. We can’t keep kicking against the pricks of other sagacious and luminous traditions and expect to get anywhere in terms of world harmony or global human fellowship.
I am a published author in the field of comparative religions, philosophy, and mysticism, and I have several degrees in those fields as well. I would like to offer you my voluntary services in order to help educate you, or the staff of Bnei Baruch, or even the public through the auspices of KabU (perhaps a separate course?). I am happy to set up a Zoom meeting with you to discuss possibilities for finding common cause with other wisdom traditions that are teaching the Wisdom of Kabbalah in their own idiom and style.
Don’t get me wrong: I deeply respect your knowledge of, and ability to teach, the Wisdom of Kabbalah, but I have to say that you are tragically misinformed in your views of other traditions, and this might turn out to be your fatal mistake. It would not be the mistake of the universal Wisdom of Kabbalah itself, since this wisdom is the very perennial source of Light that informs all of humanity’s great wisdom paths. No, this mistake of failing to join forces with Christians, Sufis, Buddhists, Taoists, Neo-Platonists, and others of goodwill would be the tragedy of Bnei Baruch alone.
I am sure that you would be astonished at how much more successful our movement would be if, rather than erecting a machsom against the Light of religions and philosophies of fellow travelers on the road to wisdom, we built bridges instead.
Please reach out to me if this letter has touched ‘the point in the heart’ at all.
Gratefully,
~ SeraphimSeraphim,
I really feel your concern that all people should unite together. This is the plan of creation that “all shall know Me from the smallest to the greatest” and “My house will be a house of prayer for all people”.
The Creator brought you to a group who is following a true kabbalist. Our teacher Rav Laitman received the method from the mouth of his teacher the RABASH who received it from his father and teacher Baal HaSualm. We are here to establish a society for all who wish to follow the path and method of Baal HaSulam, the way by which to climb the degrees of man. That’s who we are. We are following the method of Baal HaSualm that we are receiving from our teacher.
Each and every person needs to find the place that is suitable for his soul. If you feel that this is the place for you, I recommend that you do not mix any other methods in this study, it will not work, you will get confused and lose much time. This is separate from your profession, your religion or your culture. We learn about this in the Writings of the Last Generation. If your profession is to teach religions and write about religions, so carry on, each person can keep his culture and traditions. I am not speaking of your culture or your profession.
Here in our study, we are only engaging in the highest form possible in all reality as we learn in the Tikkunim of the Zohar, Tikkun 30, where two forces encounter each other. In our world there is only one force that manages, the force to enjoy. Wherever I look I only see where I can enjoy and I choose according to what I can enjoy as much as I can enjoy. My vessels, my mind, my feelings, I want to know so I can succeed. Then a time comes when humanity feels that it is not enough. So humanity searches through all kinds of methods and materials, wisdoms, inventing all kinds of things to sweeten their lives to somewhat see themselves as advancing, but it doesn’t help. All kinds of science and technology only makes it worse. This advancement that we yearned for is becoming more dangerous, atom bombs prepared for everyone, poisons in our food, we are starting to see that in all of our actions, there is an inner enemy and when we ask what to do, we discover that our true enemy that is disturbing us from advancing is our ego, our evil inclination, the general one in all of humanity. It won’t help that we correct ourselves, we are all so connected to each other that we need a general correction and here the wisdom of kabbalah comes and tells us we need to change our nature. The will to receive cannot change, that is the matter of creation that the Creator created. But I can change the way I use it from the intention to receive to the intention to bestow, that is the whole wisdom of kabbalah.We have to spread the authentic wisdom of kabbalah to all humanity and if you have the ability to write and teach, that will be a great help.
Good luck with whatever you decide,
Seth@KabUDear Seth,
Thank you very much for taking the time to make such an extended and lengthy response. That truly shows you dedication to the mission of sharing the wonderful wisdom of Kabbalah wit as many people as possible.
Of course I am going to press on at KabU and Bnei Baruch. Why would I abandon an organization that is the current vehicle for the only hope for humanity?
I agree with absolutely everything that you wrote in your response about the wealth of wisdom, and the solid tradition, and all of the other deep and important reasons to study Kabbalah according to the methods handed down from Baal HaSulam and Rav Laitman.
However, in as much as you (and all of the other fine teachers here), insist on narrowing your perspective to Kabbalah alone, without attempting to reach out and – at the very least – dialogue with other wisdom traditions, you and your organization are making a fatal error because it goes against the very principles of unity, solidarity, and mutual, fraternal love that Baal HaSulam teaches, especially those that map out his social philosophy.
Neither Baal HaSulam, nor any other wisdom teacher, ever intended for the universal wisdom of Kabbalah to become an insular, isolated organization (particularly not one that students would have to “pay to play,” but that’s another issue).
On the contrary! The true Wisdom of Kabbalah is an open, universal, and perennial tradition that not only belongs to the whole of humanity, but which can be found – in some iteration or another – in every great, perennial tradition of humanity from Taoism, to Advaita Vedanta, to Buddhadharma, to the Christway, to Sufi/Islam, to Sikhii, etc.
If you are interested in learning more about this (since you are obviously, tragically misinformed about this Perennial Wisdom) I suggest you educate yourself with books like The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley and Why Religion Matter by Huston Smith.
When you write something like “I recommend that you do not mix any other methods in this study, it will not work, you will get confused and lose much time” it not only shows your lamentable ignorance – not about the Zohar or the Kabbalah, of course, of which you are a true genius, whose knowledge I greatly value – but about the interbeing and interdependence of other wisdom paths with Kabbalah.
The truth is, I already have “mixed” (well, harmonized is a better world) other methods with Kabbalah, and it has worked – indeed is working – and far from being “confused” I would never have made the progress along the path of Kabbalah that I have made without having triangulated its Wisdom with the complementary Wisdom of Wu Wei Tao, Buddhadharma, the Christway, Yoga, Zen, and Sufism.
Now, had you – or any other Kabbalah teacher – had as significant and profound experiences in those paths as I have, I would consider your advice. But why on Earth would I discard an approach that has provided me with profound insight in favor of a narrow-minded shunting of my perspective suggested by those who have never seriously tried this more expansive and pluralistic approach?
Unlike you, I have something to compare my deep experience to; but you and the other teachers do not (or, at least, that’s what I gather from what you say when you or Gil or teachers admit, “I am not an expert in those other traditions”). So, here I am, an expert in those other traditions, and harmonizing them beautifully with the Wisdom of Kabbalah, and trying to enlighten you who have not the expertise in multiple traditions, though you are certainly geniuses in the wisdom of Kabbalah.
When I discovered the authentic Wisdom of Kabbalah taught by Rav Laitman (unlike those other trashy pseudo-Kabbalistic org’s), and when I framed its wisdom in a parallax view with other traditions that offer very complementary and corresponding methods to this Wisdom, I knew that this was a marriage made in Heaven.
Of course, I don’t expect you to immediately recognize the spiritual bounty, and the fraternal mutuality, that this approach can yield, but (unless you are just another close-minded cult bent on its own exclusive superiority) I can’t for all the world imagine why – if you are truly intent on creating world harmony among all peoples – you would not even seriously consider the possibilities and opportunities that could open with the pluralistic approach that I am suggesting, or even be open to idea that engaging in dialogue with Sufis, Yogis, Christian mystics, Meditators, etc. – far from “confusion” and “unworkability” – in fact creates the conditions for a great Symphony of Human Wisdom in which each tradition becomes like an instrument in the orchestra: Yoga on the piano, Meditation on the bassoon, Sufism on the kettle drum, and the great Conductor the the Orchestra, the Jews, with the Wisdom of Kabbalah as the prima donna and soloist!
Why can you not see that this is EXACTLY what Rav Laitman is getting at in his view of the Jews’ place in history, expressed so magnificently in _Like A Bundle of Reeds_ ? The great Human Symphony of Wisdom needs more than JUST a conductor. Wouldn’t that be a silly symphony?
And it needs more than just a soloist. All of the wisdom paths together are to be led by the conductor and soloist, the Wisdom of Kabbalah, but they cannot be rejected or ignored the way Bnei Baruch does. Where is the harmony and the music in that?
You are a musician, and I know that Bnei Baruch love music (as I do), so I am certain this image will tug at your heart strings and get your attention so that you will respond to this letter with more than just a catalogue of dismissive remarks.
I am not suggesting a path that would denigrate or diminish the Wisdom of Kabbalah. God forbid! What I am offering you is way to embody the very love, mutuality, harmony, and fraternity that is directly in line with the teachings of Baal HaSulam and the spirit of true Kabbalah.
We could truly make beautiful music together, if only we expand our Kabbalistic symphony to be more that just a conductor.
Please think hard, and pray harder about what I write here, for it could mean the difference between Bnei Baruch falling into the dustbin of history with all of the other closed-minded cults, and some other Kabbalah organization that is more faithful to the vision the Baal HaSulam taking your place.
Perhaps you might want to consider discussing these issues (the way I have framed them here) with other teachers at Bnei Baruch, like Asaph, or Tony?
Of course, I would give anything to sit down with Rav Laitman and attempt to persuade him of the Wisdom of a more symphonic Kabbalah, but I am sure that I have little hope of that conversation until I can at least penetrate the stubbornness of his gatekeepers.
With great love and respect,
~ SeraphimSeraphim,
There is the matter of perception of reality and the inner structure of reality which you did not mention at all, the upper spiritual structure, etc. It seems our approaches towards the goal of the connection of all of humanity in good loving connection are different approaches and that is ok.
Based on your replies in this forum, I don’t think you will find what you are looking for in Bnei Baruch. Coming to our first semester and criticizing the kabbalist and our method is not suitable. You don’t understand yet what you found. You can do whatever you want in your life, you can come and learn, the door is open, but to come into our house and to start to tell us what is wrong with us with all of the ‘nice’ names you applied, this does not belong. If you are not interested in what we are engaging in, then you are free to go. It sounds like you are looking for a different kind of organization.We are studying the science of the upper worlds. We are not touching religions. We accept anyone from any religion. A great kabbalist can still carry out all the religious customs of his people whichever people he is from. There is no conflict in that.
In your very brief encounter with Bnei Baruch maybe you’ve missed our last almost 40 years of dissemination to the entire world, to every continent to every people. Rav Laitman tirelessly travelled the world speaking to all kinds of leaders and common people, etc in Asia, Europe, South America, North America, etc.. before the pandemic we did a virtual convention with friends from all over Africa too who are studying with us from many different religions.
You can find thousands of clips and articles if you are interested in discovering what is going on here, here are a few to begin.
And I’m asking you that if you want to study the authentic wisdom according to what we received from the RABASH through our teacher, then carry on with us. If not, find the place that is suitable for you and stop with your criticisms on the forum where honest students are looking to methodically approach the wisdom of the kabbalists.
We are used to people misunderstanding us and even going against us, look at the history of kabbalists, this has always happened for 1000s of years.
Seth@KabUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAnvQlnFxaE
How could we experience the upper world? I would like to know if it is “totally” or if it is like a glimpse that could be more frequent as we advance in the path.
I think and I want to believe that there is an upper world but I have not experience anything close to that. But I find studying kabbalan very compeling from a mental of view
Yajaira,
First we need to understand a bit about who we are, where we are and what is happening to us.
First of all, we are 100% a will to receive. That does not change. Actually it only grows.
The Creator’s thought is to create a creature and fill it with delight.
So, you need to develop to want all of the endless fulfillment that the Creator wants to give you.Since the will to receive will not change, because we need to receive from Him, but in order to receive spiritual light we need to calibrate ourselves. We can receive food, sex, money all kinds of things from this world. They come and go and most of our life we feel empty, but by being in the spiritual environment, more and more the light influences us and the friends around us give us a good example and we start to value bestowal more and more. So we still receive, but we want to bestow and we start to bestow in our intention 1% so we feel the upper world 1% and then 2% and we feel the upper world 2%, etc…
Seth@KabUYajaira,
First we need to understand a bit about who we are, where we are and what is happening to us.
First of all, we are 100% a will to receive. That does not change. Actually it only grows.
The Creator’s thought is to create a creature and fill it with delight.
So, you need to develop to want all of the endless fulfillment that the Creator wants to give you.Since the will to receive will not change, because we need to receive from Him, but in order to receive spiritual light we need to calibrate ourselves. We can receive food, sex, money all kinds of things from this world. They come and go and most of our life we feel empty, but by being in the spiritual environment, more and more the light influences us and the friends around us give us a good example and we start to value bestowal more and more. So we still receive, but we want to bestow and we start to bestow in our intention 1% so we feel the upper world 1% and then 2% and we feel the upper world 2%, etc…
Seth@KabU
Hello
I have read about people that have a sixth sense, who have a strong connection with the spiritual world, which gives them great abilities. As for myself, I have been endowed with an ability to sense when things are going to happen (a very strong intuition). I can also feel when a different kind of energy seems to pass through, and I also have prophetic dreams. Do these abilities come from the upper/spiritual world? What can you tell me about these abilities that some people have? Thank you!
Mary,
You have very unique qualities. It is known that there are unique people in different places who have these kind of insights.
They are natural, of course if everyone were more developed, they would also feel these things. We are in a closed system of forces and we all feel them more or less sensitively.
So you can use this as a good example of the spiritual senses.
They are here all the time, in the same way you feel things that are here that not everyone feels, the same of the spiritual world. Those who have vessels of bestowal perceive the Creator bestowing to all of creation.
So all of our spiritual work is to build spiritual vessels.
We are born as 100% a will to receive so we will learn to work together to draw upper lights that purify the will to receive to bestow.
Seth@KabU
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